Does God really answer prayers?
Living in Utah, I am always hearing of experiences where God has answered someone's prayers. Of course the answer might not be what they wanted to hear, but the prayer was answered nonetheless.
My personal view is that God does not answer prayers. I feel that we are placed here on earth to make our way through on our own. In other words, God does not interfere.
Take the example of the little girl that is kidnapped, abused, and then killed. She prays to God to save her, or for her parents to find her, but nothing happens. This is a sincere prayer from a trusting innocent child. This story is all over the news until finally a lifeless body is found with signs of what happened in the last moments of life. The family members are devistated. Months later, a young boy goes missing during a camping trip. For days the family and volunteers search for him to no avail. After a couple of days, he is found safe and uninjured though dehydrated and hungry. He says he prayed that he would be found and God answered his prayers.
I don't think God interfered in either case (these are both fictional cases). How could a loving God interfere in some cases and ignore others. How could so many innocent children die of starvation or disease in 3rd world countries if there was a God that could/would interfere on occasion? In my oppinion, he doesn't interfere at all. We are on our own in this world.
Thoughts?
posted by Bishop Rick @ Wednesday, June 21, 2006
27 comments
27 Comments:
poet,
Thanks for the comment and your insight. My blog entry is definitely simplistic. A topic such as this deserves much more room for discourse, but I did want people to read to the end, and expand thru discussion.
I haven't totally written it off, but I must admit, my post is the direction in which I am leaning.
You mention that God only answers the prayers of those who have been reconciled to him. I think this is another part that I have a problem with. Literally billions of people have and will die without ever having the opportunity to be reconciled to God. It is not their fault they were born into this environment. I can't reconcile the fact that I have the opportunity to have my prayer answered, but someone else doesn't just because of their environment. Can you see where my problem here? To me, a just God treats everyone equally regardless of nationality, race, creed, social status, or opportunity.
Don't assume that answers to prayer is the only way God will ever interact with us. We are all his children, even those who have never heard of him, and that is why He has called christians to share His story and the story of Jesus. He is working in her life, making His plans for her so. And she doesn't even have to ask.
Now the fact that she may live an entire life and die an old woman never hearding a word of Jesus Christ is sad, it is something that I don't like, but I also know that there are a lot of things in this world that are not good. It is a fallen world. I do know that God has told us Jesus will not return until his gospel has been spread to every nation and tribe in the world.
I myself am quite convinced that God answers prayers. I also know that our earthly plans are far inferior to God's plans, so while we aren't seeing the "big picture" we really don't know the scope or the consiquenses of what we ask for.
One thing I have noticed, most people treat prayer as a request hotline. They only pray when they need something, or when God can convenience their lives by, oh, making this traffic go away so I can watch the game (thats a frivilous example, but I'm just trying to make a point). Try actually talking to God, tell Him how you are doing, try being friends. It may be uncomfortable, but actually talk, and don't start off with your list of requests.
He'll start talking with you, if you are listening.
Eric,
You mention that this is a fallen world. Can you explain what you mean? Was the world ever not in a fallen state, and if so, when did it fall? What does it mean for the world to be in a fallen state?
thanks,
Bishop Rick
Lipstick,
That is an interesting theory, that is actually taught by the LDS church. You mention you are not active LDS, but you sound like you have at least been influenced by them.
Of course this theory is plausible, but how probable is it?
It just makes no sense to me why a loving God would allow 1000s of churches to rise up in his name, all with opposing ideals, doctrine and dogma. Then rewarding those that are lucky enough to pick the right one, and punish everyone else. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of people on this earth (I have no stats to back up this statement, just personal experience) choose the religion of their parents. This eliminates alot of the luck factor.
It also makes no sense to me that religion in general, or at least as we know it today, has only been around for a few thousand years, when man has been around for 100s of thousands of years. I haven't been able to reconcile that one through any modern day teachings.
In short, is what you are saying possible? Sure it is. I just don't happen to be someone that believes that theory.
Lipstick Addiction: I have heard that before and it appalls me. It's generally an excuse for not helping people (not I said 'generally') as, after all, if they chose this life and these problems, aren't we really hurting them if we "help"?
Substandard java poet: the 10 commandments came way after the "fall". The fall was because Eve, and then Adam, knowing no better, disobeyed an order and ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil - which, of course, they had no knowledge of beforehand. They're supposed to obey but they have no concept of good so how does obedience strike them as bad? Anyway, your theory requires God to cause the entire creation to suffer for something he engineered into us.
Blech on both of these lines of thought.
Another one is that the "worthy" get their prayers answered. This is another line of thought which basically allows people to condemn others. If you were deserving, you wouldn't be poor. If they were deserving, you'd have been saved.
Any or all of these may be true, but I plan on living as if they are not, because what they say about the god that works that way is repulsive to me.
ridger,
what is your religous affiliation? You seem to be either deist or agnostic. In either case, I agree with your assessment on this topic.
I'm currently describing myself as a freethinker, but sometimes I think that "apathetic agnostic" (don't know if there's a god, don't care if there is one, either) fits best. I'm an athiest as regards any god ever named and described, but there might be something out there ... something that doesn't bother itself over or with us much.
BTW, I came here from Agnostic Mom.
I love Agnostic Mom. A lot of thoughtful topics there. I spent a little time at your blog as well. Will probably start posting.
Sheesh. I hate the way you can read something through and miss an obvious error. "If they were deserving, THEY'D have been saved" is what I meant.
Whether or not God answers prayer, it can't be about "who you know," that is, whether you're reconciled through jesus or not.... at least that is an unnacceptable conclusion for me... I think it was paul, though I could be totally wrong, who said that no one has any excuse not to believe in God because He has left testament in His creation.... while creation testifies the existence of a God to me, it says nothing of this Jesus.... indeed, creation does not speak english. So, if God does answer prayer, He only answers the prayers of those who live outside the city.
I'm kidding.... but I don't think answering prayer has anything to do with which religion you subscribe to. And I think sometimes our prayers are answered, but I wonder if they're not answered by circumstance.
http://mysterymessiah.blogspot.com
What is prayer first of all? We pray to God and He hears us? Or is there more to prayer than we catch onto? I have some of the same questions on this issue.
Prayers do get answered also. I know, prove it...again I say I can't do that. But I have had prayers answered that were out of my hands, to say the least. What should I make of those times, circumstance? If they were circumstance then that's great circumstance. I can literally recall 2 prayers where I truly believed (needed) something to happen and it did (on a personal level). Why did it happen? I did something not so human nature, believed (lost my doubts). I could get deeper on the issue but this will suffice.
Why do people not have prayers anwered? It's really quite a simple thing (in brutal honesty I speak). Do they actually believe it will happen? We can ask our neighbors for bread and they give us...do we ask God in that same level of belief? No, usually not. Why? We doubt His existence. So when you pray and you think it's all hot-air, well your right. You would never approach your neighbor like that when asking for bread. I guess God is there if we so notice, if we do not then we ask for nothing from nothing...I mean that's our brains for you.
Prayer is like this - if I told you nothing was going to happen to you (bad I mean) until a certain set time, would you believe me? Yes or no. If you truly believe that then nothing will stop you in believing more.
Societyvs,
I appreciate your faith in prayer, but don't you think it is a bit of a cop out to simply say if your prayer isn't answered, its your fault? Are you telling me that a little child doesn't believe and have faith if their prayer isn't answered? I just can't buy that explanation.
I think that when prayer is answered, it is coincidence.
Bishop I think that's a fair stance to take but doesn't explain all prayer experiences, only the ones we want to point out as showing 'ha ha prayer didn't work'. Maybe humans aren't listening or as the line goes 'will the son of man find faith on the earth' - that being when He returns. Maybe this earth has lost some of it's edge in looking/listening for God (that line being written in a gospel from the 1st century coming right out of Jesus' mouth).
It's easy to say prayer doesn't get answered because that's what we want to see (and I know it happens). But on the other end prayers do ger answered...I mentioned there were 2 times in my life (actually 3) where prayer was answered (outside of anything I could have done to alleviate the situation). It may be called coincidence but when you ask for what you need and get it, that's a little more than a 'coincidence' or an 'accident'.
So some kid didn't get his prayer answered, as the story so shows, yet we don't know of someone could of helped and possibly was led to help that child (yet just ignored what they thought they were led to as crazy). We don't know if that happened at all...maybe it happened once, maybe many times. But I do know this about human behavior, when we see something weird like that case (if we saw them in a mall or something) we would ignore any type of confrontation...that's how we are taught to be. So the prayer issue is more complex than 'ummmm God please intervene'.
If I asked my father (God in this case) for help, I would hope he wouldn't merely send a message to someone to help me and just sit back to see if that person gets the message, meanwhile I am dead. I am not interested in that God.
Just out of curiosity, you say you have had your prayers answered 3 times. How many times did they go unanswered? 3 out of presumably a very large number is very small indeed. That points more towards luck or coincidence.
Maybe the message was going straight to the perps brain. He or she didn't listen. Wanna blame God for that, be His guest, but I have to point the finger where it really should be pointed, at the perp. To say that prayer went unanswered is correct, to say God's call went unheeded would be more accurate. Cause if that happened in America (or any other colonized country) where the gospel has been taught for years then that perp knows about faith. He or she willingly broke this faith while we did nothing to either prevent or work with this dude prior to the occasion, to make a safer world around us. Chalk it up to unanswered prayer but I see a chain of events (of unheeded ethics) that led to something dark. It just seems we want to blame God for not answering that final prayer, and even in that do we know what she said in those final prayers?
As far as the 3 being answered in my life...I mentioned they were 3 I cannot have done on my own. I have tonnes of prayers answered and still do, but I heed the call. If I see someone without and they ask for something, you can be damn sure I rally to get something done (see Matt 25). I almost see prayer as something we have to live (it plays out in real time and we are the people that can help). Well that's not prayer? I have to say it very well is. If you see the examples on prayer in Matthew 7 they are followed by two 'human' examples and finished with the golden rule (do unto others). Oddly enough when Jesus was asked of by anyone he gave (he was right there in their midst - healing lepers, blindness, etc). Now if that ain't living prayer then what the hell?
See my view of prayer is it falls on us (a lot of the time). If we don't help when the situation can be helped then we do nothing to stop the chain reaction afterwards. Maybe God's providing us with the neccesaey resources, goods, money, human-power to do the job and we twiddle our thumbs in selfishness. After all it does say we have everything provided for us by God...maybe we don't realize He means as 'a collective whole'. If you look at it, it is true.
But if you mean by prayer, spectacular prayer where God intevenes every time then it wouldn't match up with reality or the bible. Why would the disciples help the widows (they could just ask God and He would rain manna down from heaven - I am sure He would). Why let King David murder Bathsheeba's husband? Why do all the prophets have to die in the OT (except Elijah)? Where was God I ask? Paul died at the hands of Roman soldiers, are you kidding? Chalk it up to humanity.
You are missing my point and supporting it at the same time.
I am not blaming God for not answering some prayers, because I know he doesn't answer any.
You ask where was God when all these bad things happened to OT prophets and diciples? I don't know where he was, but I know where he wasn't and that is intervening, because he simply doesn't intervene.
If you choose to believe differently that is fine. It seems to work for you, but it will never work for me.
So in the end God doesn't answer prayer? I still find that hard to rectify with the teachings of Christ but live and let live I guess. Didn't mean to piss you off, sorry dude.
Emily,
I respect your views on prayer. I realize I am not in the majority with my views on prayer, and I'm OK with that. It's just in my mind, I need more of an answer than "We don't understand the ways of God, etc." It is this need that drives me to ponder and search for answers. Many times I have to come to my own conclusion because the answer isn't out there (as you say) so I conclude what makes the most sense for me.
You stick to what makes the most sense to you.
B-Rick
I never commented on this question of whether God really answers prayers or not before. I think you are right. The more I think back with eyes open, the more I see that in many instances I was just plain lucky, or coincidence stepped in and I thought (being the positive type that I am) that I was being blessed by God.
It always bothered me that God would even send innocent kids to abusive parents in the first place, knowing what kind of hell he was sending them to. What kind of parent would do that? A loving one?
The LDS church would cry, Free Agency! Those crappy parents are to be given their free agency, and if the child suffers, so be it. That is their test in life. They will be rewarded for being good in the next.
I don't like it. Never did, never will.
I just wrote about this topic at my blog. check it out at http://paranoidfr33k.blogspot.com/2007/06/trials-and-tribulations.html
I focused more on "free agency", but we discuss the same ideas.
You have a great blog, by the way.
/paranoidfr33k
I'd like to go back to a comment Bishop made near the beginning. Why are people's answers to prayer so based on their circumstances? This is not a matter of faith, it is about what family you happen to be born into and what part of the world you live. It could be argued that because the world is fallen, people in other countries never hear about God and it is our job to tell them. But if God is just and loving, why are we so lucky? We Americans don't really deserve to have our prayers answered. And in countries where your beliefs in Christianity could cost you your life, people's faith is much stronger. It would have to be! You have to really believe something to risk your life for it. Yet these oppressed Christians in other countries don't get their prayers answered. They truly have much more faith than many American Christians. How is that fair?
Well I know this is a really old topic and I'm sure no one will respond but I did a search today to hear answers on this topic and I wonder unfortunately if I read this blog because I'm more inclined to agree with it.
I did read everyone's post by the way, and the many different examples they put to the equation. I'm not sure exactly what side I'm on, but I'll answer with what I have learned or think I know on the subject.
I don't know if this will be long or short, but I'm sure it will be worth the read. I've read the entire bible and used to own a Christian website for 2 years, so I'm not an expert but I've studied Christianity for a long time now.
The only problem with this topic in general is that it opens other doors to other questions. I suppose I'll have to use some personal examples as well.
------------------
Does God answer prayers or not is the question.
The Bishops(doesn't that make you Catholic like me?) story is a good one to challenge the topic. Why the girl died and why the boy lived, vice versa on gender in stories if you like as that is irrelevant. But typically using a female victim strikes us more deeply as heinous.
For the poster that stated perhaps God did answer the prayer by sending others to talk to the perp or criminal or to help the child seems a bit off to me. Do you remember David and Goliath or when the Lord told King David in not the same words even if you're outnumbered you will win all wars. Well where in the bible has God ever sent someone to do something by his will that they did not accomplish? Even Jonas refused at first but then still came around because God said "you're going to do this" and that's the way it was going to be and the way it was. Again for those of you who know the bible well I'm not going to notate or footnote scripture. You should know in other words what I'm saying. So in general I disagree with that hypothesis that we "could" have done something, as if God wanted someone to do it for him he would have sent them and it would have happened.
If you disagree with the above comments the next discussion that reflects this is choice vs. fate. Free Will vs. Everything happens for a reason/Destiny. Because in itself if you believe Everything Happens for a Reason, than it most likely doesn't agree with Free Will, and Choice doesn't really come into play. Adding the final dimension we don't see the whole picture but God does. Well if there is some whole picture we don't see, then no matter what choices we made it wouldn't affect God's overall plan.
In regards to God's overall plan, it's just quite clear, and Revelation really directs this argument. While we don't know what will happen in all of our own lives, the End will come, probably a long time from now, but those living nearest the end times really have no use of prayer as far as I'm concerned because how can prayer change the end of the world when God makes no illusion of what is going to happen and the return of Jesus Christ?
When we talk of unanswered prayers many people I think are referring to prayers that weren't answered the way people wanted them to be. Obviously the girl in the example first post wanted to live, the answer was no obviously. At another site today I seen the 4 answers someone analayzed, No, Yes, Wait, In a different way, meaning no is no, yes is yes, wait is yes but not now, and the final is in a way you weren't expecting. Seems logical and perhaps even true but it does nothing for us seeing the world as it is and questioning why things happen to us and to others.
For over a decade now I've wondered and analyzed and researched and even prayed at times trying to figure out what my point in life is, and I have found nothing, and even when I thought I knew the answer I now think I could be wrong.
To be continued...
continued...
For the poster that said I know prayer works because it worked for me 3 times, the Bishops response was accurate, how many times were they not answered though?
Back to free will vs. destiny, I believe God is two things, complex and ironic. While it would be nice for us to use logic and try to figure him out, that would be too easy and God wouldn't allow it most likely because then you'd know he's real and the requirement of faith in him would be easy. It's like saying if you knew the answer, you'd have no doubt. Yet both God and the Devil are on the earth and are doing whatever they can to bring you to there side of the battle, even though we know God will win in the end if we believe in what the bible tells us.
It's nice to believe we have free will and if I had to guess using no logic, I'd say God allows free will and has an ever changing plan in regards to our choices in life, while at the same time holding on to the ending, as the ending and beginning or Alpha and Omega are his.
I mean we all can agree being believers that Revelation will occur, therefore a simple answer is that free will cannot exist, because the end must come, but that doesn't mean necessarily that God cannot continue to shuffle us all like a deck of cards to still meet his ultimate end. Stating then that both free will and fate can occur simultaneously even those it seems illogical or impossible.
Look I really don't want to talk about my personal experiences, show you the most convincing or coincidental thing I've ever seen to make me believe God is real, that is so remotely a possibility the calculations of probability of the act you'd have to do on paper because calculators don't have enough room.
I will say this though in conclusion. Life is life. I honestly believe that some people just have to die, and some people get to live better lives. It's not fair, it's not right, there is no justification on this either even if we are more holy than they are or do more righteous acts. But we also don't know what our lives will be like in the afterlife so maybe it's better for those who have it worse here.
I think God can/could answer prayers if he wanted to, I believe he has the capability as shown through the bible to do anything. I think the scary thing is though, that at the end of the day he has to answer to no one and therefore even if all your intentions are noble, positive, and for the best, he still might not let it happen, simply because he chooses to. Not even on a case of his greater plan, I think he does what he wants.
I read somewhere today that if God and you had a better relationship you'd get more prayers answered, I don't know if I believe that or not. If I tested that theory for a few months here would be my results, if good things happened I'd believe it and if they didn't I'd doubt it. I can see an aspect of truth to it such as when we are in a relationship with a man or woman dependent upon what you prefer of course, we focus on them, and I could see God saying "hey you have love now, but what about me?". Maybe if we gave that extra attention to him he would be more apt to help us in the future. But even more questions raise, shouldn't we be focused on helping other humans whether involved in relationships or not? Therefore our focus is on humanity because we are human and not on God all the time or even that much at all. But in effect are still doing God's work or what people will credit to God even if we are doing it out of our own will or choice. Yet the issue is also two-fold, because if God wants this deeper relationship with us why is it us always as the sinners that have to try to reach out to him? That makes no sense. Why can't he reach out to us, and again the answer to that is obvious because if he did and we physically seen or experienced something divine, we'd know God is real and faith would become pointless again.
I am going through a very difficult time in my own life, similar to some experiences in the past, and yet I prayed again. I always thought why pray, I don't want to bother God when many others need help more or more often. But I do believe God does what he wants and yet I question him sometimes thinking he is limited in power because he can't just instantly answer my prayer, but life never seems to work that way but it could at certain times dependent on circumstances. Ironically after all this I do believe my prayer will be answered, or the one I'm thinking of but that is me using all my brain power, logic, and circumstances of the equation to come to that conclusion. So what then? Do I accredit it to God or do I say it was going to happen no matter what, as it was God's plan or just as I said, it was going to happen? Seriously I believe it will be answered or what I want will occur or what I asked for will occur. But is it God's doing, mine & others involved, life, or just the plan of life?
If your prayer is answered who can you thank?
If your an atheist and things don't go your way who can you blame?
Do you believe that people are born criminals or homosexual or do you believe that trauma in there life changed there perspectives and behavior?
Random questions.
I think God does answer prayers, and I think he'll be there for mine, and if not, then I guess I was wrong but I was right as well because I guess I'm one of those who has to have a tougher life so others can have an easier one.
God Bless,
Rebirth
One last thing on this. It is sometimes seemingly impossible to answer a prayer for everyone. Take this example.
Say 5 women love 1 man, they are all noble and good people, all with sin but do the best they can, all 5 women want to be with that one man, but obviously unless you believe in polygamy it cannot occur and 4 people have to be disappointed.
The same example can be used for 5 people that want a job and go home and pray for it, only one job opening ensures 4 people will not have there prayer answered. Numbers alone show that not all prayers can be answered.
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I really like this video. In it the speaker talks about how the prayer was seemingly answered wrong but in fact lead to the right thing. Give it a watch. http://www.mormonchannel.org/video/mormon-messages?v=2714780496001
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